When people say Jews need a homeland I have a strange little voice in me that says ‘doesn’t everyone?’
Because my ancestors put my other ancestors in chains and now here I sit in Australia descended of prisoners - does that mean I need a new piece of land to begin a new culture based on an identity as flimsy as tissue paper?
When people say Jews need a homeland I have a strange little voice in me that says ‘doesn’t everyone?’
Because my ancestors put my other ancestors in chains and now here I sit in Australia descended of prisoners - does that mean I need a new piece of land to begin a new culture based on an identity as flimsy as tissue paper?
I know not what I am and I have a feeling those other humans who call themselves ‘Jews’ know no more than I.
That’s an excellent and sincere way of asking it. I understand the “land” was a way for a persecuted group of people to have a more structured way of defending themselves from others who just want to kill them for what they are: Jews.
Some people don’t like Jews; one cannot stop that, although one might argue it is an ego thing. Maybe the way Jews deal with some aspects of life makes some people angry and envied, but wanting to exterminate them doesn't seem like a very modern way of living.
So, not “everyone,” as you said, needs a homeland, but those who are chased everywhere for their identity do, I believe. This can include some tribes in Africa, America, and the Arctic, as well as the Palestinian people. These groups have to get organized and have good leadership to obtain and govern some land on earth nowadays!
Establishing a new homeland causes all kinds of adverse outcomes; tens of millions were killed in America when the Spanish, English, and Portuguese established their reign. Israel didn’t have this approach: it responded to war threats and had strong protective measures, which are constantly being questioned.
So, it is not a one-person thing. It’s a collective solution that was put in place. Other groups of people are trying their way, and we (everyone ) are constantly evaluating if those ways are valid or not based on the means and current ethics, but I feel it is not straightforward to argue against it.
It sure is complicated now. Black skin used to be for sunny places (mostly) and white skin for long grey winters and dark oak forests in summer. All that has changed and is now pretty confusing at best and shit show at worst
Israelis are living in their ancestral home - Australians aren’t, they’re colonisers in Aboriginal lands
Jews are named after Judea ( ie now roughly Palestine) because they lived there and most were brutally expelled by the Romans
Arabs are so named because they’re originally from Arabia - they aren’t indigenous to Palestine
Yet Israeli Arabs are full citizens and have more civil rights, live better and more successfully and freely than Arabs in Gaza and in the West Bank under Hamas and the PLO - there are Arab politicians, Arab judges, Arab doctors, business men and women, Miss Israel, soldiers in the IDF etc
So this is first manipulative and second factually incorrect. Australians, as you put it are not defined and includes Jews - many of my friends in fact ( who are colonisers by your admission). You make no acknowledgment of the FACT Australia was set up as a PENAL colony. As in PRISON. How this makes us colonisers is victim blaming and clearly articulates your position as on the side of Oligarchs and ruling elites and enforcement agencies who put the prisoners there. Ya know like African Americans are colonisers.
Come on man. I know you are better than that. Give it another go. I'm just a nobody living under a bridge and I can see 50 shades of grey rubbish in what you are trying to achieve here. And don't even get me started of History or Identity.
Oh and one last thing. Everyone was originally from Africa or did you not go to school or sommit? Set the datum and the time line, box it in and make your world view super tiny and then we can swap crayons - until then Ya Basic.
If you really believe that European Jews are descendents of the Jews of three thousand years ago that may be so, but the evidence suggests they have no racial connection with that group or area at all, they are nearly all descendents of European converts, that is what most of my Jewish friends believe.
Omg! My parents are from Eastern Europe but My ancestral DNA goes back 98 generations all the way back one person at a time to King David. And my husband whose family comes from Russia have proven genetic markers that go back as far as Aaron the brother of Moses! I believe king David was the King of Israel. I believe it’s the same area that Israel is just smaller since he ruled over all 12 tribes who held land in that very region. So Jews have been known to be thrown out of Israel numerous times and made their way to other lands including Eastern Europe . We know EXACTLY WHO WE ARE! And we aren’t converts!
One could argue that their divinity commanded [some of?] the Jewish forebears to move FROM their father's house (in Uruk) TO Palestine/the region currently called Israel/what the Bible calls the promised land (one of the metaphors that engendered a transatlantic genocide as well [see: Steven Newcomb, *Pagans in the Promised Land*, 2008,
No one moved from Uruk to "Palestine". The latter name was invented by a 2nd century Roman emperor, who was annoyed because the native Jews of Judea kept fighting for to resume their independence.
The only independent nation between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea for the last 2600 years has been Israel.
Thank you, I should have been more accurate on the term "Palestine" - although I did portray a few options concerning the nomenclature that I was unsure of.
I truly thought "Palestinian" was related tp 'Philistine". Perhaps they are, etymologically - but misnomers in some other sense(s), as John H. Abeles MD points out.
I welcome all facts/factoids brought to my/our attention, but am entirely unsure as to why, how, and when they will ever help restore peace, and I don't see much evidence that they do. Perhaps historical data are not meant to restore peace (or fuel war), since peace and war are activities predicated (directly or indirectly) by human choice. Which is in no way equivalent to saying hiistory shouldn't be studied at all; on the contrary.
When people say Jews need a homeland I have a strange little voice in me that says ‘doesn’t everyone?’
Because my ancestors put my other ancestors in chains and now here I sit in Australia descended of prisoners - does that mean I need a new piece of land to begin a new culture based on an identity as flimsy as tissue paper?
I know not what I am and I have a feeling those other humans who call themselves ‘Jews’ know no more than I.
It’s all stories. Ego. Violence.
Until we choose peace.
That’s an excellent and sincere way of asking it. I understand the “land” was a way for a persecuted group of people to have a more structured way of defending themselves from others who just want to kill them for what they are: Jews.
Some people don’t like Jews; one cannot stop that, although one might argue it is an ego thing. Maybe the way Jews deal with some aspects of life makes some people angry and envied, but wanting to exterminate them doesn't seem like a very modern way of living.
So, not “everyone,” as you said, needs a homeland, but those who are chased everywhere for their identity do, I believe. This can include some tribes in Africa, America, and the Arctic, as well as the Palestinian people. These groups have to get organized and have good leadership to obtain and govern some land on earth nowadays!
Establishing a new homeland causes all kinds of adverse outcomes; tens of millions were killed in America when the Spanish, English, and Portuguese established their reign. Israel didn’t have this approach: it responded to war threats and had strong protective measures, which are constantly being questioned.
So, it is not a one-person thing. It’s a collective solution that was put in place. Other groups of people are trying their way, and we (everyone ) are constantly evaluating if those ways are valid or not based on the means and current ethics, but I feel it is not straightforward to argue against it.
It sure is complicated now. Black skin used to be for sunny places (mostly) and white skin for long grey winters and dark oak forests in summer. All that has changed and is now pretty confusing at best and shit show at worst
Israelis are living in their ancestral home - Australians aren’t, they’re colonisers in Aboriginal lands
Jews are named after Judea ( ie now roughly Palestine) because they lived there and most were brutally expelled by the Romans
Arabs are so named because they’re originally from Arabia - they aren’t indigenous to Palestine
Yet Israeli Arabs are full citizens and have more civil rights, live better and more successfully and freely than Arabs in Gaza and in the West Bank under Hamas and the PLO - there are Arab politicians, Arab judges, Arab doctors, business men and women, Miss Israel, soldiers in the IDF etc
So this is first manipulative and second factually incorrect. Australians, as you put it are not defined and includes Jews - many of my friends in fact ( who are colonisers by your admission). You make no acknowledgment of the FACT Australia was set up as a PENAL colony. As in PRISON. How this makes us colonisers is victim blaming and clearly articulates your position as on the side of Oligarchs and ruling elites and enforcement agencies who put the prisoners there. Ya know like African Americans are colonisers.
Come on man. I know you are better than that. Give it another go. I'm just a nobody living under a bridge and I can see 50 shades of grey rubbish in what you are trying to achieve here. And don't even get me started of History or Identity.
Oh and one last thing. Everyone was originally from Africa or did you not go to school or sommit? Set the datum and the time line, box it in and make your world view super tiny and then we can swap crayons - until then Ya Basic.
Nice to see you here.
If you really believe that European Jews are descendents of the Jews of three thousand years ago that may be so, but the evidence suggests they have no racial connection with that group or area at all, they are nearly all descendents of European converts, that is what most of my Jewish friends believe.
Genetic analysis at 23AndMe has a definitive category “ Ashkenazi Jew”
Thus ethnicity along Jews is real albeit - like many peoples - somewhat diluted by converts, intermarriages etc
Omg! My parents are from Eastern Europe but My ancestral DNA goes back 98 generations all the way back one person at a time to King David. And my husband whose family comes from Russia have proven genetic markers that go back as far as Aaron the brother of Moses! I believe king David was the King of Israel. I believe it’s the same area that Israel is just smaller since he ruled over all 12 tribes who held land in that very region. So Jews have been known to be thrown out of Israel numerous times and made their way to other lands including Eastern Europe . We know EXACTLY WHO WE ARE! And we aren’t converts!
lol
you are definitely part of a cult
One could argue that their divinity commanded [some of?] the Jewish forebears to move FROM their father's house (in Uruk) TO Palestine/the region currently called Israel/what the Bible calls the promised land (one of the metaphors that engendered a transatlantic genocide as well [see: Steven Newcomb, *Pagans in the Promised Land*, 2008,
No one moved from Uruk to "Palestine". The latter name was invented by a 2nd century Roman emperor, who was annoyed because the native Jews of Judea kept fighting for to resume their independence.
The only independent nation between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea for the last 2600 years has been Israel.
Thank you, I should have been more accurate on the term "Palestine" - although I did portray a few options concerning the nomenclature that I was unsure of.
Philistine people were there before the Jewish moved in. Philistine is the original name of the Palestinians.
Wrong
The Hebrews ( Jews ) moved to Canaan - now roughly Israel
The Philistines came later to the area now roughly Gaza
The Philistines were of Greek origin from Crete and other islands
They weren’t Arabs
Modern Gazans are Arabs and were not descended from the ancient Philistines
I truly thought "Palestinian" was related tp 'Philistine". Perhaps they are, etymologically - but misnomers in some other sense(s), as John H. Abeles MD points out.
I welcome all facts/factoids brought to my/our attention, but am entirely unsure as to why, how, and when they will ever help restore peace, and I don't see much evidence that they do. Perhaps historical data are not meant to restore peace (or fuel war), since peace and war are activities predicated (directly or indirectly) by human choice. Which is in no way equivalent to saying hiistory shouldn't be studied at all; on the contrary.